I am disappointed with Wulven

[Unruler]

That statement makes no sense at all... So if a 6cc 1/1 creature with no effect would be released as a legendary, the game is still pay to win? Of course it matters that a card is balanced.

To my argument balance does not matter. If you have access to the cards I don't have an access, that's very much pay to win, and it kills the game for me.

They wanted them to be a surprise?

Pay to have a card does not mean pay to win.

Lurk the merchant, you'll get one for yourself and change your tune.

Most unpleasant surprise ever: "Hey, guys, we're pay to win now, surpriiiise!".

[CyrusKhane]

Yeah, out of a card pool of 352 cards, two of them have shifted the game to a Pay to win pyramid scheme. Those bastards.

[snow_man]

plo, under the "buy" section, if you follow the prophecies card numbers up to 150 but before the 1 for prophecies heroes, it will appear there. Specifically, between "Fan of Blades" and "Boris Skullcrusher".

As far as being "Hard to get" they really aren't that hard to get, seeing as I got 2x of one legendary, and 1x of the other, and at that point in time, still hadn't gotten #140 at that point in time. Because there are only 2x legendaries, your chance of getting ALL legendaries, is actually better than getting all Epics. They are much harder to get through the merchants "buy" though, which is what free-to-play users will generally use... This would be my gripe, I am all for them being 1800gold (or even 3k-5k gold) but the fact that they are going to be unavailble for a while, which is annoying for those who want to spend their gold on them.

As far as Zyraquis comment, "the more the better" these cards are somewhat annoying, because it already costs about $600 to get 1x complete set in digital form (versus $100 in physical form). This is an extreme price for something that is digital and temporary. (They only exist as long as the game exists, unlike physicial). I would be for tons of Legendaries, if they would create complete sets in the digital form, but right now I think it already costs too much to make a complete set in digital form. Hopefully the auction house lightens up this price.

[Demnchi]

To my argument balance does not matter. If you have access to the cards I don't have an access, that's very much pay to win, and it kills the game for me.



Most unpleasant surprise ever: "Hey, guys, we're pay to win now, surpriiiise!".

Except its not pay to win. You keep excluding that free players can have access to them. I don't mean to be rude, but if you think this is pay to win you've CLEARLY never seen REAL pay to win, exclusive to paying customer, overpowered bull crap. None of which are present here... GDC even said the merchant himself will stock some every now and then. Its not exclusive to JUST paying players.

... the Merchant is going to start opening his own packs soon and will be getting some Legendaries in stock from those. (He won't stop opening until he gets a reasonable number.)

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My guess is that they were created to appeal to collectors and offer players something that is hard to obtain, rather you spend money or not. They were hidden to add excitement and probably a bit of wonder to the game. Yes, it probably does entice some booster sales, but that wasn't their sole intent if you ask me.

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Ninja's by snow_man, they appear between the alt art heroes and fan of blades

[Warr Byrd]

What I can not understand is why those cards were made hard to get, I understand that Wulven is a company and they need profit to maintain themselve, and I have nothing against it, but if I were in their place I would have made the alternate art hard to get and make the legendaries cheap.

BTW, so the legendaries are being sold by the merchant. But where exactly, in the "pack" section next to the sleeves or in the last page of the "buy" section? Where exactly? And does the merchant recharges them or he only sells when a player sells them? I have heard someone was offered 900 gold for it by the merchant. Does this mean that they cost about 1800gold? since cards ae sold for half their using price.

The alternate art heroes were made easy to get so that people could play meltdown or draft format games using just Dark Prophecies boosters.

Obviously, you have a chance to get the legendaries in booster packs from the merchant. If you are lucky, then you can catch one under the normal buy tab (the one where you buy your other individual cards), located between the weapons and the alternate art heroes.

[Unruler]

Except its not pay to win. You keep excluding that free players can have access to them. I don't mean to be rude, but if you think this is pay to win you've CLEARLY never seen REAL pay to win, exclusive to paying customer, overpowered bull crap. None of which are present here... GDC even said the merchant himself will stock some every now and then. Its not exclusive to JUST paying players.





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My guess is that they were created to appeal to collectors and offer players something that is hard to obtain, rather you spend money or not. They were hidden to add excitement and probably a bit of wonder to the game. Yes, it probably does entice some booster sales, but that wasn't their sole intent if you ask me.

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Ninja's by snow_man, they appear between the alt art heroes and fan of blades

It's pay to win because they're way too hard to get, it requires someone to sell them from booster first.

And I've seen a lot pay to win TCGs (which is almost every tcg ever) and that's why I don't play them extensively. I don't want it to happen to SE, they are moving in that direction.

[Demnchi]

It's pay to win because they're way too hard to get, it requires someone to sell them from booster first.

And I've seen a lot pay to win TCGs (which is almost every tcg ever) and that's why I don't play them extensively. I don't want it to happen to SE, they are moving in that direction.

Something hard to get/rare doesn't relate to pay to win if everyone has access to it somehow. Dedicated free players will wait for their chance to grab something rare, in any free to play game. Also, just because its easier and quicker to get a full set of CotC by money, doesn't mean the game is pay to win. The same applies here, just because a card isn't showing up in the merchant all the time doesn't mean that the game is pay to win. Beyond that, once the Card Market appears they will show up there too.

[Preybird]

What I can not understand is why those cards were made hard to get, I understand that Wulven is a company and they need profit to maintain themselve, and I have nothing against it, but if I were in their place I would have made the alternate art hard to get and make the legendaries cheap.

The thing is, alternate art only causes dedicated collectors to spend more money. A rare and unique card only available in boosters will generate more money because EVERYONE wants them. Wulven had to do something drastic because people were only buying up Elemental starters for gold (truth be told most will probably still do that)

I also think the term Pay2Win is being thrown about too much, without being understood. Pay2Win does not mean you have to pay money for certain items, it means you cannot possibly win WITHOUT paying for those items. I can guarantee you there will be many top 100 players who didn't use either legendary at the end of this season, and many tournament winners who didn't use either legendary as well. Both cards are very niche and require specific decks and heroes to make work effectively, hardly the definition of overpowered and Pay2Win.

If you want to experience what real Pay2Win feels like, try your hand at Gameloft's Order & Chaos: Duels TCG.

[Unruler]

The thing is, alternate art only causes dedicated collectors to spend more money. A rare and unique card only available in boosters will generate more money because EVERYONE wants them. Wulven had to do something drastic because people were only buying up Elemental starters for gold (truth be told most will probably still do that)

I also think the term Pay2Win is being thrown about too much, without being understood. Pay2Win does not mean you have to pay money for certain items, it means you cannot possibly win WITHOUT paying for those items. I can guarantee you there will be many top 100 players who didn't use either legendary at the end of this season, and many tournament winners who didn't use either legendary as well. Both cards are very niche and require specific decks and heroes to make work effectively, hardly the definition of overpowered and Pay2Win.

If you want to experience what real Pay2Win feels like, try your hand at Gameloft's Order & Chaos: Duels TCG.

I think you understand that too literally, most games give some kind of opportunity to get cards w/o investing money, nut they are so long and laborious, just like gold farming and waiting those cards to appear in merchant.

The matter of principle is: can I easily access to all the cards? With legendaries clear answer is no.

I see that fanboyism of some people makes them to defend predatory business practices, but they don't benefit to the game, they can help to make some quick bucks, but it negatively affects popularity, you don't want your game be labeled as pay to win, and people already inclined to do that when they see a tcg.

[Preybird]

I think you understand that too literally, most games give some kind of opportunity to get cards w/o investing money, nut they are so long and laborious, just like gold farming and waiting those cards to appear in merchant.

The opportunities are there. Level up crystals, stalking the merchant, the card market (when/if it gets here).