sleeves advantage

[plo]

It seems to me the idea of advantage is an illusion in this instance, those cards don't allow you to choose which card you get. They are random. When the digital card hits the field you have no way of knowing. The front of the card is same regardless of the sleeves. The advantage is one in your head, because you feel you have good knowledge of whether the card in their hand is dangerous, however you have no clue if the other cards in their hand are better than that card or if that card would be the least useful one for you to take.

No, it really does give you an advantage. When you and your opponent are using different sleeves you can know whether the cards he is holding came from your deck or his, this is an extra information can give you an advantage.
If your opponent is using cards like Night Prowler, Gravedigger's Cloak, Procured and Restored, then you have an advantage from knowing the origin of the cards in his hand while he does not have this advantage.

[Demnchi]

Not to mention using those two cards you know (or can figure out) what they took so its pretty handy to know if they held onto it or not.

[CyrusKhane]

Nine times out of ten (at least, in my experience) the cards stolen by the opponent are either played next turn or tossed for a resource. The advantage here is so slight, it's not really worth correcting. This seems like it would be more of a problem in the physical game, with people accidentally (or on purpose, who knows) walking away with a couple of your cards.

[plo]

It's slight, but it is by correcting those small details that the game improves. Gondorian said "quality is our top-priority", if this is the case even those minimal details have to be thought in a game. Even though the difference is slight I will never use a sleeve on my Baduruu deck to give an advantage to my opponent, it is big enough to make me do this decision.

[a player]

What if the game gave all players random colored card-back borders? That way naked or sleeved, everyone would always be able to see their cards in their opponent's hand, just as they should in any physical game....

[snow_man]

I don't believe any change should be made on this. Yes I do see the points on both sides. Here is the deal though, it's a premium feature that is NOT game breaking. Yes, sleeved players end up with a different style game, but I would not say an advantage. The only way they would have an advantage is if it was a 3+ player game (which shadow era does not support). The advantage you are talking about is a longevity advantage and how your specific play style factors in, as well as the reliability to know what is what. That is not a game breaking, or even developer issue.

On an individual game level here are the possible outcomes:
Sleeved versus non-sleeved game: Neither player has an advantage, because each player can see if a card is taken/opponent is holding/or playing that card (due to the sleeves being different).
Sleeved versus sleeved game: Neither player has an advantage, because each player can see if a card is taken/opponent is holding/or playing that card (due to the sleeves being different).
Non-sleeved versus non-sleeved: Neither player has an advantage, because neither player can see if opponent is holding/or playing that card.

There is simply no advantage on a single game level. On a multi-game level, it's based on your specific play style. You may build a deck that really helps when you steal someones card or actually hurts you if they can see your card, thats how you built your deck. This is no different from me buying yellow sleeves, and playing against a friend in real life that used yellow sleeves "because no one else does" or like my two friends that played each other without unsleeved physical cards. It happens in real life too.

My final comment on this is, if you want sleeves BUY THEM. You can level 5 times and afford a set of sleeves for FREE... So no, they are not FORCING you to pay for sleeves as you suggest, you choose to spend your shadow crystals on something else. I have a friend who plays the game, has gotten 4x of every card + 2 sets of sleeves completely FREE. The point behind free-mium games is you either have to play enough to get the freebies, or buy them. You choose the route, but claiming the game is broken because you don't want to put in the time isn't the option =)

[plo]

On an individual game level here are the possible outcomes:
Sleeved versus non-sleeved game: Neither player has an advantage, because each player can see if a card is taken/opponent is holding/or playing that card (due to the sleeves being different).
Sleeved versus sleeved game: Neither player has an advantage, because each player can see if a card is taken/opponent is holding/or playing that card (due to the sleeves being different).
Non-sleeved versus non-sleeved: Neither player has an advantage, because neither player can see if opponent is holding/or playing that card.

I feel I was misunderstood and I must clarify. Even though in thise cases the rule is being applied to both players, some take more advantage from it than others.

Let me draw an analogy: suppose the DT made a rule that when 2 players use the same sleeve, at the start of each turn each players draw 2 cards instead of 1. And that a weenie-rush Zaladar went against a heavy-control Zhanna, in this case following your line of reasoning you would say: "Neither player has an advantage, because each player is drawing 2 cards instead of one". But the fact is that the Zaladar is having an advantage, because even though the rule applies for both, he gets more advantage from this wild draw than does the Zhanna.

This is the same for the sleeves., even though the rule is being applied to both, there are decks that take more advantage from this than others. Although they don't affect so much, they do alter the gameplay to some small extent.

In the analogy I drew above it was as if they were forcing you to use sleeves to use the weenie rush Zaladar to it's fullest, and in a similar way it is as if you were being forced to have sleeves to use some decks to the fullest.

I may have exagerated at some points, but I hope it made my thoughts clearer

[jazra]

What if the game gave all players random colored card-back borders? That way naked or sleeved, everyone would always be able to see their cards in their opponent's hand, [ cuts the rest here]

Depending on the color scheme, it might be a little jarring where the borders contrast more with the art. Still, I think that's a pretty neat suggestion if the color tones would match up.

[pastes] just as they should in any physical game....

Any physical game? I don't understand. Maybe there are some recent conventions or tournament rules I don't know. Back when I played MtG with physical cards: I do recall playing lots of games where the backs of my cards and those of my opponent's cards were indistinguishable. Particularly when we were both playing with cards of about the same age and wear. Sometimes there are cases where cards wore down or got handled differently, but it's entirely possible for physical cards to look the same from both players.

[a player]

Okay, I have never yet played a game of physical Shadow Era (I'm eagerly awaiting my cards from the Pre-order), so I may have over-stated my case.

If I play a physical game, I think I will need a way to recognize which cards belong to each player, to avoid ill-will and to ensure that cards that are stolen in-game do not become stolen IRL. If I take my opponent's card using Dimension Ripper, it must return to that opponent's graveyard. If we each bring our own deck, I don't want to discover that I inadvertently swapped my pristine card for my opponent's tatty one....

[oijjio]

There's a reason Magic NEVER had an ability that puts cards into opponent's hands. That simply opens up too many complications and possibilities for cheating. It's always "return to owners hand" or "put in owner's graveyard." When I started SE I assumed it was only a digital game partially because of this quirk.