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  1. #1
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    Make minimum number of cards in a deck 60?

    Hi,
    Most trading card game requires a minimum of 60 cards to play (when the 4 copies of a single card are allowed in a deck). IMO, 60 cards minimum can make decks more variable. Currently, most decks in a random matches (especially in the high rank part) are very similar if not identical.

    Plus, with the next expansion of 150 shiny new cards, increased deck size would allow people to explore new possibilities.
    Forgive me if this has been discussed before (even it is, the arrival of new expansion should revive this topic for re-consideration).

    EDIT: from the replies, I see that many players LIKE the 40 card format; so how about make an addition game channel? (one remains at 40 card minimum and another one at 60 card minimum) so people would have a chance to choose for a consistent meta game or a variable, more luck based meta? This won't hurt either crowd?
    Last edited by 5dPZ; 01-25-2013 at 02:23 AM.

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    Official Organised Play Specialist NaharPT's Avatar
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    Thing is that other 60 card decks TCGs u are talking about, usually have some kind of resource card as a card type, that are usually in a proportion of around 1/3 of the deck composition (give or take, and depending on deck archetype)...

    So, in those TCGs, you also have more or less around 40 really "playable" cards...
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    Senior Member Killtrend's Avatar
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    In my 60 card MTG blue control I have 24 lands.

    60 cards would make this game near unplayable.
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    1.27 Tournament Champion Raphael Majere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5dPZ View Post
    Hi,
    Most trading card game requires a minimum of 60 cards to play (when the 4 copies of a single card are allowed in a deck). IMO, 60 cards minimum can make decks more variable. Currently, most decks in a random matches (especially in the high rank part) are very similar if not identical.

    Plus, with the next expansion of 150 shiny new cards, increased deck size would allow people to explore new possibilities.
    Forgive me if this has been discussed before (even it is, the arrival of new expansion should revive this topic for re-consideration).
    If your idea of 'variable' = more luck based, that's not a good direction to move towards.

    So +1 to nahar and KT.

    By the way, by "high rank" you are referring to?

    The top 100 players are playing with pretty creative decks with their own tweaks like/with sever ties, worms, Serena, shrine, lance rush, ms with BM and deathbone, semi solo Gwen, control type victor,at least 3 types of zal, etc.

    The addition of expansion will make the meta more "variable" - it has nothing to do with deck size.

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  5. #5
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    The thing is, with 40 card format we have right now, the decks are very much fixed; and very much predictable during game play and thus make games very repeatative. I can almost predict what is the opponent's next moves are.

    Building decks with 40 card = the same deck for each hero in higher tiers;
    Playing decks with 40 card = the same moves for each hero in each turn.

    Building decks with 60 card = more variable decks for each hero
    and even if there is a "best" deck for the hero, aka, somehow people figured out the best 60 like they did with best 40 right now -
    Playing decks with 60 card = more variable moves each turn (that turn 3 fireball anyone? that turn 3 Jasmine anyone? they are much less likely to happen with 60 card decks)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael Majere View Post
    If your idea of 'variable' = more luck based, that's not a good direction to move towards.

    So +1 to nahar and KT.

    By the way, by "high rank" you are referring to?

    The top 100 players are playing with pretty creative decks with their own tweaks like/with sever ties, worms, Serena, shrine, lance rush, ms with BM and deathbone, semi solo Gwen, control type victor,at least 3 types of zal, etc.

    The addition of expansion will make the meta more "variable" - it has nothing to do with deck size.
    I have never played competatively, but the "random matches" online, every Zal and mages and lance etc i met around 280-300 runs exactly the same decks.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Natethegreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5dPZ View Post
    (that turn 3 fireball anyone? that turn 3 Jasmine anyone? they are much less likely to happen with 60 card decks)
    Exactly why it won't happen. You are thinking it would vary, would it, yes. Would it also make every deck much less reliable, very much so. Would it make the game less enjoyable? Much less for me.
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    DP Visionary Warr Byrd's Avatar
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    First off, nothing is stopping you from making a 60 card deck. It's a 40 card minimum, not a 40 card requirement.

    Second off, there are already lots of variations, even with the base set of 200 cards. Everyone has slightly different play styles (which is why two players with the same deck can end up at very different ratings), and the good players tweak their deck to best fit their play style. Beyond that, people will tech their decks for certain anticipated match ups, especially when going between quick match and tournaments.

    Finally, with the expansion, many of the heroes will have multiple viable deck archetypes. You will no longer be able to guess with near certainty what cards are in their deck.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natethegreat View Post
    Exactly why it won't happen. You are thinking it would vary, would it, yes. Would it also make every deck much less reliable, very much so. Would it make the game less enjoyable? Much less for me.
    So your "ideal" game is a game that you make the same moves every turn and your opponent doing the same. So that everytime you see the match up, you can tell the result of the match 80% of the time; and may as well as predict how the game goes turn by turn? Is that the ideal model of game for you?

  10. #10
    DP Visionary Demnchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5dPZ View Post
    So your "ideal" game is a game that you make the same moves every turn and your opponent doing the same. So that everytime you see the match up, you can tell the result of the match 80% of the time; and may as well as predict how the game goes turn by turn? Is that the ideal model of game for you?
    The thing is, the more cards you HAVE to put into a deck, the less likely it is to create specific strategies. New cards will open up the venue for new strategies assuming they can be played in the first place. If you increase the deck size, it will be much harder to create a deck with a specific strategy. While it would make them more varied in the sense that there would be more different cards in the deck compared to now, it would make the game feel too random. You need the right amount of randomness to have decks that are consistent, but never guaranteed. Other wise the game becomes more dull due to the lack of actual strategy created at the deck building level, which is an important fundamental skill/trait in TCG's.
    Last edited by Demnchi; 01-25-2013 at 02:23 AM.
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