Helpful article about levels of thinking

[1ndeed]

I just remembered this article from mtg days. Even though the writer wrote this for mtg, i think it applies to all tcgs as well as poker. Wtzky wrote a similar article. What i like about this one is the advice about seeking out your opponents level and playing exactly one level above them, no more than 1. Essentially, dont overthink if you are playing weaker players.

The article tells us how to change our play based on whether our opponent is stronger, weaker, or about the same level, as well as how to identify what level your opponent is at. Id like to come up with some direct SE examples for the concepts.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/f..._Thinking.html

Enjoy.

[ColdSteel]

I think this article is great, there are many nice points which people could really learn something from it. However, I think in Shadow Era world the it is very supranational.
For example, you are thinking ahead of your opponent if going to play high cc ally during mid or late game. So you saved up some abilities like MC, Assassination or any kind of board control cards. While you had to sac your high cc allies in order to keep up the resource pool to perform your counter. And things aren't turned out what you were expecting. Your opponent happened to spam the board with low cc allies while pumping himself up with Santa or any other way to draw.
Now your plan has ruined and it's hard for you to keep up the incoming foes with just abilities while worries about your opponent is going to drop more allies. My point is, never think too much about the outcomes. A turn or 2 ahead is great, but never is a good idea to think ahead of 5 turns while players have less than 2 resources. Just my 2 cents

[1ndeed]

I think for tournaments you can venture into level 3, but for qms, especially at the lower levels, its hard to do successfully. Because a 65 card boris deck is impossible to predict...

Actually the best point imo is to seek out your opponents level and stick to playing just one level higher. If your opponent is level0, then yea, think one turn ahead. But if your opp IS thinking 5 moves ahead, you had better stay six steps ahead.

[Unruler]

I think for tournaments you can venture into level 3, but for qms, especially at the lower levels, its hard to do successfully. Because a 65 card boris deck is impossible to predict....

How about 60 cards Gwen? It's UNPREDICTABLE.

[Alzorath]

Leveled thinking is a useful skill, though I feel it makes a 'stepped' thought process into a more of a 'ladder' process... (ie depth vs flat thought).

kind of like comparing:
1
2
3
4


to

1
....2
........3
............4


Simply put - instead of looping the argument, you should look at potential depth (this is especially applicable in draft tournaments, where you have seen the cards you 'pass' to other players, that don't come back around).

My Hand
My Opponent's Hand
My Opponent's Thoughts on My Hand
My Thought on the Opponent's Thoughts on My Hand
<further thought inefficient, take step into depth>
My Deck & Hand
My Opponent's Deck & Hand
My Opponent's Thought on My Deck & Hand
My Thought on the Opponent's Thoughts on My Deck & Hand
<inefficency>
then move on to sideboard.
then field of opponents. <--- oddly enough this is the level you need to think at to build some of the better decks in a 'balanced' game. (read: Meta/Counter-Meta)

Simply put, someone can be exceptional at leveled thought with an individual opponent, but they also need the depth of thought to prepare a deck to take advantage of it.

At least that's my experience and view from back when I played MtG... so many years ago lol.

Casual Playerbase: "Neat Stuff" (Level 0) decks. "Wooo! 12/12 w/ Trample!, what's cumulative upkeep?"
Non-tournament: Direct Decks (Level 1 - A to B) "Fire Burns stuff, stuff dies when burned"
Skilled: Counter Decks (Level 2 - C counters A) "Water stops fire, and drowns you"
Advanced: Counter-Counter (Level 3 - D circumvents C, or Level 3 - D counters C) "Electricity goes right through water / Earth absorbs water"

[Wtzky]

Cool article.

I really enjoy the leveled thinking tactical aspect of strategy games like this and other complex games like poker.

Also, thanks for the plug for my article lol hard to know if people are reading it since its on omega only and not the forums

[ayaribas]

"The most important factor is not what level you operate on, but the proper identification of the level your opponent is operating on"..
couldn't agree more but boy that's a tough one sometimes

I think that SE doesn't have the depth required (yet) in order to go into such thinking processes, for the moment it's all about figuring out your opp's game plan (if he has one) and maximizing the effectiveness of your own..by turns 4-5 you should have a good idea on what's going on

of course in SE it's incredibly important to know the strengths / weaknesses of each hero and what their ideal plays can be on any given turn