Hero Deck Archetype Tier Rankings [1.603]

**Keaven** · 07-31-2012, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by stevevai1983

nice work but i don't agree with lots of tiers...

So please discuss.

**Kurii** · 07-31-2012, 06:24 AM

I feel tiers really depend on the matchup. Which is why I think tiers should be matchup based, but that will require a lot of thought, time, and effort to be done "right" (as if there is such thing as a "right" tier list).

There is one solution I might suggest, and it'll be easy if people do it accurately.

So basically when I think of Tier, I think who has the highest chance of winning overall. In the fighting game community we have a matchup chart. 5-5 would mean out of 10 matches, you'd win half so 50% win chance. 1-9 would mean 10% win chance. There are two ways to get these numbers: (1) Theorycraft. (2) Actually keep track of your win rate against heroes. If you have like 10-15 people playing about 15 matches a day for a week, that's 1050-1575 match data you can use! Just put it in an Excel spreadsheet or make it a public one online with Google or something.

So what do you do with these numbers? Make a chart. Average the win rates for each character. Display the matchup chart and the overall win rates.

I've already started a few days ago. As a personal project to see what my deck needs to work on. I've got 41 matches marked so far.

Of course you'd only want decent players doing this to get better results. Maybe people above a certain ranking. I'd be willing to share my results for this project if we get enough players. I started less than a week ago, but I'm ranked 280 at the moment (and rising).

Here. I even made you a template. http://uploading.com/files/get/e2d62...2BProject.xlsx

**Mew Two** · 07-31-2012, 08:51 AM

Me gusta

Is burn gwen really tier tier 1 right now though? It seems like just ley line alone might demote it to 1.5... I mean she's good, but most decks carry lln for a hard counter.
One more problem, TER IS 3 IN EVERYTHING! IT ISNT FAIR :'(

**Keaven** · 07-31-2012, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mew Two

Me gusta

Is burn gwen really tier tier 1 right now though? It seems like just ley line alone might demote it to 1.5... I mean she's good, but most decks carry lln for a hard counter.
One more problem, TER IS 3 IN EVERYTHING! IT ISNT FAIR :'(

Burn Gwen is T1 as she hard counters almost all other T1 heroes so effectively. She doesn't need to fear LLN

if she can control the board because she has plenty of weapons in reserve. A LLN

stalls the opponent more than Gwen unless they have board dominance and can attack with allies afterwards, because she now has two options. Drop more allies, or another weapon if she already has Rapid Fire

and enough SE to activate her ability.

And yes, Ter sux.

**stevevai1983** · 07-31-2012, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Keaven

So please discuss.

firstly i would only categorize decks into Rush, Control, Balanced, Mill, Solo these 5 types atm.

e.g a Elad deck with Kist*4 Puwen

*4 Potl*4 Alder*3 as ally backbone then add mage burn spells include supernova*4
do you categorize it to Rush or Burn or Suicide?

less types mean they are more "robust". Easier to analysis and group them.
It's like all the math equations, "fancy complex" equations always target very specific situations and they are fragile(rely on lots of assumptions), less robust.

**Tyr Anasazi** · 07-31-2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by stevevai1983

firstly i would only categorize decks into Rush, Control, Balanced, Mill, Solo these 5 types atm.

e.g a Elad deck with Kist*4 Puwen

*4 Potl*4 Alder*3 as ally backbone then add mage burn spells include supernova*4
do you categorize it to Rush or Burn or Suicide?

less types mean they are more "robust". Easier to analysis and group them.
It's like all the math equations, "fancy complex" equations always target very specific situations and they are fragile(rely on lots of assumptions), less robust.

As a matter of fact, even 5 types are too many.

Mill is just a special case of control, whose win condition happens to be the deck out.

And Solo is not even a type really. It can be solo rush, solo control or solo combo(Gwenneth

/SS/RF/ItF).

In the end, it all boils down to the 3 major types, aggro, control and combo.

**stevevai1983** · 07-31-2012, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr Anasazi

As a matter of fact, even 5 types are too many.

Mill is just a special case of control, whose win condition happens to be the deck out.

And Solo is not even a type really. It can be solo rush, solo control or solo combo(Gwenneth

/SS/RF/ItF).

In the end, it all boils down to the 3 major types, aggro, control and combo.

yep, agree.