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  1. #11
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    IMO, it was slightly silly of them to venture into it. It's a completely niche market, and they won't survive in a closed box CCG set, let alone trying to hold boosters etc. Literally your market is your obsessed fans, and maybe a few enthusiasts to the genre. They raised $140,000 on preorders, but now none of these people need to pay for in-game SC (since they basically gave away $140,000 worth of SC), and they've invested god knows how much money in just getting these cards to print and with all the extras involved. And the work hasn't even begun yet if he's planning on actualyl publishing and distributing it. Ignoring the fact that the game won't translate to physical cards well at all (resources, turns to keep track of for cards like eladwen's ability or clinging webs, durability on armor/weapons, mixing decks with dimension ripper, persistant damage, clouded judgment on what exactly triggers IGG, etc etc) and you've got yourself a mess. I know my card stores around here won't bother with it. If they package it as a closed CCG with 6x of every card and 2x of every card -- MAYBE. But TCG's just don't work, look at VS and how it just... died. For no reason, other than WoW was coming.

    On top of that, now any changes that need to be made for the good of the game cannot be made due to the first set being "locked in". And now you'll have to venture into the physical market with the expansions even if the payout isn't worth it, to stay consistent. It's just sort of awful.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Speed Freak's Avatar
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    i honestly think it would have been better if wulven waited for another couple of years to release the physical counterparts. That would have increased the fan base and the chances of making it big and staying solid at the physical market. Till then they could've fleshed out the virtual cards, game rules, mechanics, balancing in a proper and effective way. Just my thoughts...
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stereosound View Post
    IMO, it was slightly silly of them to venture into it. It's a completely niche market, and they won't survive in a closed box CCG set, let alone trying to hold boosters etc. Literally your market is your obsessed fans, and maybe a few enthusiasts to the genre. They raised $140,000 on preorders, but now none of these people need to pay for in-game SC (since they basically gave away $140,000 worth of SC), and they've invested god knows how much money in just getting these cards to print and with all the extras involved. And the work hasn't even begun yet if he's planning on actualyl publishing and distributing it. Ignoring the fact that the game won't translate to physical cards well at all (resources, turns to keep track of for cards like eladwen's ability or clinging webs, durability on armor/weapons, mixing decks with dimension ripper, persistant damage, clouded judgment on what exactly triggers IGG, etc etc) and you've got yourself a mess. I know my card stores around here won't bother with it. If they package it as a closed CCG with 6x of every card and 2x of every card -- MAYBE. But TCG's just don't work, look at VS and how it just... died. For no reason, other than WoW was coming.

    On top of that, now any changes that need to be made for the good of the game cannot be made due to the first set being "locked in". And now you'll have to venture into the physical market with the expansions even if the payout isn't worth it, to stay consistent. It's just sort of awful.
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  4. #14
    1.27 Tournament Champion Raphael Majere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphlem View Post
    I love SE, but I don't think the physical game will take off -- I envision it just being a pain to play physically, and I play Mtg with people.

    You can play an Mtg deck that doesn't need counters, short of keeping track of your own life (ie, Hero's health). it's not a big deal. But playing a deck like Thallids, Elves, or Allies where you constantly add/remove counters is a pain and I'd never want to ONLY play a deck like that, and every SE deck will be like this. here's the fun you get to look forward to all the time (maybe you and probably your opponent will have to add/remove:

    1. counters for Hero health
    2. counters for SE
    3. counters for weapon/armor durability
    4. counters for ally health when they get partially damaged or are poisoned/ablaze
    5. markers/counters for when things are Ablaze, Poisoned, etc when cards don't attach
    6. Probably more that I am forgetting right now.

    I wish Wulven well, but this is how businesses mess themselves up -- they stray from the core of what they kick a$$ in (for SE, it's an awesome online gaming experience that was created/crafted to be just that, not a physical one). What they should be doing instead is making it as seamless as possible, as low phone battery-consuming as possible (or with options for it at least), more varied animations, and of course more cards or Heros to play.

    It just feels like Wulven are reaching a bit here... I hope they don't fall off the ledge while stretching for that straw.
    Yeah, too many tokens would spoil the game. Any game.

  5. #15
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    i dont think that SE must became a physical gcc, at must they can add a way to play in local whit the mobile device.

    physical card are good for collection not for play this is a internet gcc and it can became the leader of internet gcc.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphlem View Post
    I love SE, but I don't think the physical game will take off -- I envision it just being a pain to play physically, and I play Mtg with people.

    You can play an Mtg deck that doesn't need counters, short of keeping track of your own life (ie, Hero's health). it's not a big deal. But playing a deck like Thallids, Elves, or Allies where you constantly add/remove counters is a pain and I'd never want to ONLY play a deck like that, and every SE deck will be like this. here's the fun you get to look forward to all the time (maybe you and probably your opponent will have to add/remove:

    1. counters for Hero health
    2. counters for SE
    3. counters for weapon/armor durability
    4. counters for ally health when they get partially damaged or are poisoned/ablaze
    5. markers/counters for when things are Ablaze, Poisoned, etc when cards don't attach
    6. Probably more that I am forgetting right now.

    I wish Wulven well, but this is how businesses mess themselves up -- they stray from the core of what they kick a$$ in (for SE, it's an awesome online gaming experience that was created/crafted to be just that, not a physical one). What they should be doing instead is making it as seamless as possible, as low phone battery-consuming as possible (or with options for it at least), more varied animations, and of course more cards or Heros to play.

    It just feels like Wulven are reaching a bit here... I hope they don't fall off the ledge while stretching for that straw.
    I never tought about this.. Maybe it will too hard to play it on physical way becouse of that ammount of tokens.
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  7. #17
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    FYI low battery might never happen. It's just a downside with working with Unity (along with the big apk size) -- there's only so much you can do (lower framerates, reduce call cycles, lower network data sent). Since you're not working in straight C# or javascript there's a lot less streamlining that can be done. And considering it's taking them to do some of the more simpler stuff (like a 40 card minimum, which still isn't even done properly, or a real deck editor instead of the cop-out at we have now), it's unlikely you'll see anything that could help or even them attempting to research ways to lower battery consumption.

    Edit: Counters for turns frozen, portal turns left, resources (since cards like that rogue card get you resources without producing a card). There's a lot to keep track of, in literally every game.

  8. #18
    Senior Member stevevai1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stereosound View Post
    IMO, it was slightly silly of them to venture into it. It's a completely niche market, and they won't survive in a closed box CCG set, let alone trying to hold boosters etc. Literally your market is your obsessed fans, and maybe a few enthusiasts to the genre. They raised $140,000 on preorders, but now none of these people need to pay for in-game SC (since they basically gave away $140,000 worth of SC), and they've invested god knows how much money in just getting these cards to print and with all the extras involved. And the work hasn't even begun yet if he's planning on actualyl publishing and distributing it. Ignoring the fact that the game won't translate to physical cards well at all (resources, turns to keep track of for cards like eladwen's ability or clinging webs, durability on armor/weapons, mixing decks with dimension ripper, persistant damage, clouded judgment on what exactly triggers IGG, etc etc) and you've got yourself a mess. I know my card stores around here won't bother with it. If they package it as a closed CCG with 6x of every card and 2x of every card -- MAYBE. But TCG's just don't work, look at VS and how it just... died. For no reason, other than WoW was coming.

    On top of that, now any changes that need to be made for the good of the game cannot be made due to the first set being "locked in". And now you'll have to venture into the physical market with the expansions even if the payout isn't worth it, to stay consistent. It's just sort of awful.
    i kinda agree with this... SE mechanics does not fit physical cards.. and because of physical cards they can no longer tweak the balance once the set is "locked"
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  9. #19
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    I hope the physical cards is just a little side project for Wulven - a way of pleasing the hardcore fans and maybe making a little bit of extra cash on the side (which tbh is probably unlikely - physical TGCs constantly fail due to high expenses and the difficulty of getting good distribution and playerbase concentration). If it's just that, then there won't be much harm come from it.

    If, however, they're really serious about it and are putting up a whole lot of debt to try to really make a splash with the physical game, thinking that the digital game is just a starter project to get the market interested in the "real" ie physical game, then that could be really bad for the health of the company. I'm sure they've done their research but they should know that you can count the number of successful physical TCGs on your fingers while there's literally hundreds of failed ones, many of which had well recognised IPs. It's just a ridiculously tough market due to harsh network effects.

    They've got a really good opportunity to establish themselves as something unique in this market, not due to the fundamental game (which as has been noted before is basically WoWTCG clone) but because of the platform and "F2P" business model. I hope they continue to play to their strengths and the physical game is just a little diversion for the hardcore fans/collectors.

  10. #20
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    I agree with all that physical card will not be Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh replacement in anyway.

    But one thing that Wulven is doing that nobody else ever done (as far as I know) makes me wonder the potential. Basically, they are making Physical card as a way for you to get digital money i.e. Shadow Crystals. Since they are matching the price to price, any digital shadow game player have no reason NOT to buy physical card. If worst comes worst, just buy physical card and throw away. You still didn't lose a penny (maybe except tax).

    *Obviously, the physical cards need to be relatively easily accessible to purchase; otherwise, waiting for several weeks to get cards or paying a lots of extra money for shipping probably won't fly well.

    Because of above, initially it may be only core fans/digital game fans who buy physical cards but they will and if that's significant, that will spread word about this game.

    Perhaps I am optimistic, but I am truly impressed with Wulven's business model here. Definitely, they don't seem to be after quick cashing, but instead they appears to be taking slow gradual approach to establish strong foundation. This model of approach seem to me is looking for several years into the future.

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