Balancing Shadow Era: Deconstuctive vs. Constructive changes

[sammysheep]

Currently we have a large number of top tier heroes in good balance. Eladwen versus Logan, for example, is a tough battle that could go either way for two good players. Unfortunately, in previous releases, and indeed, in the upcoming one, hero balance changes are often made to "bring down" a hero or force a specific style of play. I will use Eladwen as an example, because I know her the best, but other players will be able to bring up more examples I'm sure.

Here is a proposed deconstructive change for Eladwen in 1.304:

8. Eladwen changes ability "4SE: Target ally takes 4 damage and is
Frozen until the end of your next turn"

Such a change is DECONSTRUCTIVE because it forces Eladwen to play a more control oriented style. Super-rush and mid-range aggro decks become effectively unviable. Currently, you can player her several ways. This change limits her to essentially one.

On the other hand, here is a proposed card from 1.306 that constructively deals with Eladwen's direct damage shadow power:

13) Severed Ties: rename to Drain Power and change effect to be:
3cc Target Hero loses 1SE and can not activate its Hero Ability until the start of your next turn.
(Shadow may still be spent normally on other cards and itsms. Does not affect Shadow Energy gains)

This is a CONSTRUCTIVE balance change because it creates new possibilities, and not just against Eladwen. Moreover, it addresses the same issue while not forcing players into a mold. Not every player wants to build the same kind of deck.

In conclusion: when something is clearly an exploit, then yes, change it. If it's worthless, as some argue Rogues are, very well, make them better. However, if you have a good amount of balance already, it's not broken so don't fix it! When you can see room for a little improvement, please consider applying constructive changes that add value to the game and encourage variety rather than deconstructive ones that cater to one group of players.

Thank you for your consideration and for making Shadow Era a fun pastime for many people.

[iClipse]

Hmmm, I have to disagree here.

Nerfing is such an ugly word, but still sometimes it IS best to use that tactic. If you have 80% of the heroes that have a problem with that only matchup, than nerfing that card is a better AND easier way to achieve balance again. Because of that so called 'nerf' (it isn't even a nerf, but whatever), a lot of heroes became viable again. Jericho? Check. Rogues? Check. Hunters? Check. All these had extreme difficulty beating Eladwen.

Sometimes it's just a better option to bring something back in line again.

To put it in an extreme result:
You can have a card: 2cc add the opponent's hand to your hand. Your hand limit is unlimited.
And then have the counter: 1cc your opponent can't exchange any cards from your hand to his hand.

We have a card here, and we have the answer to it as well. Does that mean that the first card is balanced? No, not at all! Sometimes it's just better to take a small step back as an individual hero, so that all other heroes can take a step forward as a group.

[thendless]

Currently we have a large number of top tier heroes in good balance.

Two is a large number?

[Gondorian]

Thanks for your feedback.

The change to Eladwen came before the change to Drain Power. With Drain Power as it is, you might be right that we could allow Eladwen to target the Hero again. It's not too late for that. She'd lose the Freeze ability though, and that is proving very important for dealing with some of the big scary allies that are new to the 1.30 update.

There were a LOT of complaints about Eladwen though. It can lead to a very dull luck-based match-up if you just go for Hero. And, it is also counter-productive - I do not know anyone who played Eladwen above 300 by death racing. All it does it put off new players - both those who lose and those who pick Eladwen to try to win and then get bored because FB,FB,LS,Nova,FB,LS,Nova is not really very interesting.

[Warr Byrd]

The Eladwen change might destroy the super-rush, but it won't destroy the mid-range aggro style, and it certainly won't force control style. She will be doing just as much damage as before, she just won't be able to do it to the hero. While the super-rush strategy involves dealing almost all damage to the hero, all other play styles involve managing the board to some degree; this changes makes Eladwen better at this, and allows her to focus her Fireballs on the opposing hero. The change will make her slightly less accessible to new players, but I think she will end up being roughly on par with where she is currently, although we will need to see what happens once she hits the meta.

A better example of deconstructive change would be the nerf to Blood Frenzy, destroying the advantage from a turn two unilateral draw engine or the synergy with Jewler's Dream.

[LARKEN]

Currently we have a large number of top tier heroes in good balance. Eladwen versus Logan, for example, is a tough battle that could go either way for two good players. Unfortunately, in previous releases, and indeed, in the upcoming one, hero balance changes are often made to "bring down" a hero or force a specific style of play. I will use Eladwen as an example, because I know her the best, but other players will be able to bring up more examples I'm sure.

Here is a proposed deconstructive change for Eladwen in 1.304:

8. Eladwen changes ability "4SE: Target ally takes 4 damage and is
Frozen until the end of your next turn"

Such a change is DECONSTRUCTIVE because it forces Eladwen to play a more control oriented style. Super-rush and mid-range aggro decks become effectively unviable. Currently, you can player her several ways. This change limits her to essentially one.

On the other hand, here is a proposed card from 1.306 that constructively deals with Eladwen's direct damage shadow power:

13) Severed Ties: rename to Drain Power and change effect to be:
3cc Target Hero loses 1SE and can not activate its Hero Ability until the start of your next turn.
(Shadow may still be spent normally on other cards and itsms. Does not affect Shadow Energy gains)

This is a CONSTRUCTIVE balance change because it creates new possibilities, and not just against Eladwen. Moreover, it addresses the same issue while not forcing players into a mold. Not every player wants to build the same kind of deck.

In conclusion: when something is clearly an exploit, then yes, change it. If it's worthless, as some argue Rogues are, very well, make them better. However, if you have a good amount of balance already, it's not broken so don't fix it! When you can see room for a little improvement, please consider applying constructive changes that add value to the game and encourage variety rather than deconstructive ones that cater to one group of players.

Thank you for your consideration and for making Shadow Era a fun pastime for many people.

Hey sammy! Good post, but I think when discussing balance you need to look at the entire card pool, what makes eld and Logan so powerful is because of the card pool at their disposal as well as their ability. I agree nerfing for the sake of nerfing is not good but I would guess the design and player focus group look at the synergy and interaction of the card pools to 'trim' abilities so on the face of it the ability has been nerves but looking at the changing card pool the abilities have just been balanced. The game will develop on this trend for ever, for me when I look at new cards and ability changes I mentally play them in a deck and gage scenarios to look at the broader picture... If i find an issue i give several examples and work arounds with reasons to allow in game testing...No doubt we can test for real in a few weeks...

Well put together post though... Good hunting

[Seth]

For what it's worth, I agree with sammy's post that the PFG should revert her power and see how that runs. This new Drain card should be an effective defense to it, and the rush style should be preserved for those who want to play with it, if possible.

[abazigal]

Severed ties simply delays Eladwen for 1 turn. How is that going to effectively change anything?

[thendless]

Super-rush decks should have very effective counters and SE has none. In MtG for instance a red burn deck can beat you in five turns but it can also be stopped by a single Circle of Protection:Red or delayed by discard and counter spells. Severed Ties alone won't cut it.

[LosLosrien]

Super-rush decks should have very effective counters and SE has none. In MtG for instance a red burn deck can beat you in five turns but it can also be stopped by a single Circle of Protection:Red or delayed by discard and counter spells. Severed Ties alone won't cut it.

+1 on that. What am i supposed to do versus a super-rush deck??

edit: playing custom elad. controlled burn deck