Temporary list is ugly design as it goes against established core deckbuilding rules.

Second thing is in case of Soul Reaper, most decks run 1 anyway so it is irrelevant. In case of discarding Reaper, they can use Mimic as more versatile option over multiple copies of Soul Reaper. Aside helping out discard and other forms of midrange Zaladar, which seems the main motivation for calling back ban on Soul Reaper (I don't recall anyone wanting other cards back even at 1 copy and instead asking to add more similar cards to the list like Full Moon and Holy Shield), players seem to forget there is another deck that also uses it and that is Mill Praxix. Mill Prax got pretty powerful tool recently with Accelerate. I fear that with Soul Reaper that deck will bring about more NPE than buffed discard Zaladar would bring fun.

Instead, nerf or printing of new similar cards seems like ideal solution to me, eg 4cc Heal 1 per ally removed from GY, still puts it above similarly costed healing cards.

Whatever happens it will definitely cause big meta shift. What I would like to ask is if people don't like current meta and are willing to risk to imbalance it with such a change? For example Mill Praxix winning most of the time vs slower decks and Zaladar at tier 1 with 4x Mind Control making all fatties far worse.

Originally Posted by Veles

Temporary list is ugly design as it goes against established core deckbuilding rules.

There is already a restriction of 0 for people to remember when they build. Now it would just be 1. I think the ugliness would be worth it to get the data.

And maybe some could stay on Temporary Ban List and others could be on Temporary Restricted List, if you are that worried about Soul Reaper.

I'm pretty sure at this stage, based on data collected and what we have seen, that just Permanent Ban for all these cards is not the best solution. It is time to reassess and try an improvement.

just change the cards (balance) and forget that physical ever existed!


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Originally Posted by Gondorian

I'm pretty sure at this stage, based on data collected and what we have seen, that just Permanent Ban for all these cards is not the best solution. It is time to reassess and try an improvement.

Completely disagree. I’m not sure how you draw this conclusion. If it is only based on the fact that Zaladar and Praxix have faded, then it is not a proper conclusion.

Putting 1 copy of Reaper back into play will bring back the ugliness with which this list was implemented to remove. Having 1 copy of these cards is not a way to work around the main issue of the “no errata” rule.

Bottom line is that these cards are broken and a stain on the game. They need to be changed, not restricted. That is the only real way to solve the problem. NOT placing them back into the game where they can once again ruin the experience of players. Especially new players.

Again, I do not know how you found yourself arriving at this conclusion. I will say that I find it makes no sense to return back to a time where so many were unhappy with what was found in QM.

I also agree on changing the cards to achieve balance rather than having a 1 of restriction. If you allow to have less than 4 cards for one card then will open Pandora's box for more cards for people to ask to restrict to 2 of. Easy fix will be to nerf or rejigh them without changing the whole tcg design.

If someone has a compelling business case that takes costs and expected benefits into account for doing errata on these cards, I'd love to see it.

Part of the meta problem is that the current state is strongly biased toward aggro. Most of LL1 were powerful low cost creatures, such as Zailen Scholar being must answer. There aren't real catchup tools against mages that go Kris, Fatebreaker, Aldon, you're at 15, nova fireball fireball dead. Soul reaper compounds this in Zal/Prax, giving them the crucial extra turn or two after you stabilize against early swarms. Having played a lot of Magic recently, the ability to block creatures trying to maximize damage against you to burn you out buys so much life that we just don't have.

I would much rather play against AoA/stall, because there exists counterplay, and there is time to find those answers. Cards like LLN, Shriek of Revulsion, which have solid general function against a wide array of other cards (anklebreaker, ss, badu, kp...). A game against rush mage can be decided in the first few turns. Stall at least is a *game*. You have the decisions of what threats to make, and just being proactive feels better than trying to stem a t3 5/5 zailen scholar.

Also, no one pointed at Elementalis when discussing Soul Reaper. This makes me sad. Is it possible to ban cards on certain heroes only?

Basically, forcing people to play interaction rather than linear solitaire, I feel, makes a better experience.

The ban list is stupid anyway...there are so many cards that are more worthy of banning than any on the list. And allowing 1 copy of a card deemed necessary to ban makes no sense. But it makes no difference to me...I'm likely finished playing anything more than qm anyway.

Originally Posted by Hammy Striker

I as a veteran in the game am defo not happy with this banning of cards that have been around for years. If this will continue to stand I will end up not playing this game any more and hope others follow suit.

Are you still around?

Originally Posted by Gondorian

If someone has a compelling business case that takes costs and expected benefits into account for doing errata on these cards, I'd love to see it.

How much money shadow era is making with physical cards? Because I don't see errata affecting digital that much.

Also, if physical is lucrative, why SF don't have a physical set yet?

We don't need to errata them. We can just ban them and release their rejigged counterparts as new cards a part of the campaign set.

Originally Posted by Kross

We don't need to errata them. We can just ban them and release their rejigged counterparts as new cards a part of the campaign set.

Exactly what I had in mind

Originally Posted by ocnarb

How much money shadow era is making with physical cards? Because I don't see errata affecting digital that much.

Also, if physical is lucrative, why SF don't have a physical set yet?

Money being made from physical right now? None. Actually less than none. It costs more money to store the stock than sales per month.

You can put this fact in your business case and I look forward to reading it.

I hate the ban list. I absolutely hate it ... and it affects none of the decks I use anyway. #LiberateTheBanned ...

rework the new cards not ones that have survived several iterations ... wasn't that the philosophy anyway? One of the cool things is this game has no errata and wasn't going to have banned cards except carmilla and the angel (and that was when they were released).

Originally Posted by Gondorian

Money being made from physical right now? None. Actually less than none. It costs more money to store the stock than sales per month.

You can put this fact in your business case and I look forward to reading it.

Thats good news actually. Lets open up the locked sets (CotC, DP, SF etc.) and excite the players by amending unusable cards into cards that we can incorporate in the current meta. Cards like Sandra Trueblade, campfire stories, selfishness etc. could all do with buffs.

Also #liberatethebannedcards

Originally Posted by Shadow Mann

Are you still around?

Hahaha yep still here.